|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the French Fourth Republic article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Role in European Unity
The role of the Fourth Republic in the creation of what is now the European Union is essential. I have added basic information but it is essential that this be explored because it changes the historical perception of this government - despite its apparent dysfunction it had the power to alter the entire course of European history in ways the "more stable" UK could not. Vital for historic balance. Irasocol (talk) 12:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
There is almost nothing here yet about how France and its institutions were rebuilt by the Fourth Republic. It is important to include how this government created/recreated universal health care and a free higher education system. Again, important to remove the Gaullist (and Anglo-American) bias that this was a dysfunctional government. Irasocol (talk) 12:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
current map is not correct since it lacks the Algerian departements that ceased to exist with the following republic in 1962. the map of the fourth republic should include tbe Alsace and Lorraine départements (annexed by germany during the third republic) and the algeria departments. by the way all france maps lack the overseas colonies which were part of the republican territory as well. Paris By Night 09:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- corrected it. Paris By Night 09:40, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Someone has uncorrected it; needs recorrecting. Teemu Leisti (talk) 21:48, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
I noticed that Cleduc (talk) changed the successor state of the Fourth Republic to the Fifth Republic, and that Barryob (talk) reverted this change. I did the same change some time ago and was likewise reverted by Barryob. There was an inconclusive discussion on Barryob's talk page and I let it rest for a while.
I hereby propose to use the French Fifth Republic as the successor state of the Fourth. To me, this seems logical; the articles are of the same type, describing the constitutions and governments. Someone navigating through these articles is likely more interested in the article on the Fifth Republic (which succeeded the Fourth) than in the general article on France (which didn't). Both constitiutions are within the context of France; listing France as the successor of the Fourth Republic seems to contradict this. Opinions? Phaunt 10:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- I just made the change to the 5th too, after clicking next and going to the Obviously Wrong Place. Afterwards, I decided I ought to check up on the history. Barryob, didn't seem to give any explanation for his change, and I agree that his explanation in the talk page discussion isn't very convincing. Is he somehow contending that the 4th republic was not (a) France? In the context of a series of governments, the reader wants to read about the succession of governments, not the geography or culture of the country. --Belg4mit 01:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Proposed name change
To Fourth French Republic (I am proposing this change for all French Republic articles.)
Fourth French Republic is a more precise translation of Quatrième République Française. The name of the regime was the French Republic, and it was the fourth one. Funnyhat 06:58, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
- A point to keep in mind is that the current title seems to be the more common one. A google search on both terms (crude though that tool may be) yields about 24 times as many hits for the current title than it does for your proposal.
- Also, I'm not sure why this is an imprecise translation. If you see Quatrième Republique as a unit (and I think that is justifiable; the government could be referred to as la quatrième republique, couldn't it?), wouldn't it make sense to keep 'fourth' and 'republic' adjacent? Phaunt 22:35, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
- For format convenience, I am more in favor of simple Fourth Republic (France). Although Second Republic may refer to either the Spanish Second Republic or the French Second Republic, their is not many other occurences of Third, Fourth and Fifth Republic (some are calling for a Sixth Republic, but that's another story!) Tazmaniacs (talk) 13:55, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Concur on "Nth Republic" being a unit. The French themselves refer to each republic as "the Nth Republic," and never as "the French Republic." On their WP, they use the format suggested by Tazmaniacs; http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuxième_République_(France) 22.214.171.124 (talk) 04:51, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
- This is typically a question of being grammatically correct. In respect to the French First Republic / First French Republic, the modifier is pooly placed giving an indication that within the republic French is first (more of a modern reference, but beside the point). It is a French Republic, this being the first, therefore it should be the First French Republic, of that all can be followed. Similarly, this is the Fourth of the French Replublics and therefore is the Fourth French Republic. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 17:00, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- I argue that based on the usual order of adjectives in English (https://www.gingersoftware.com/content/grammar-rules/adjectives/order-of-adjectives/), it ought to be Second French Republic -- "Third" is a number and "French" is a proper adjective, and they should proceed in that order. "French Second Republic" just sounds incorrect.
- As for the argument that "French Second Republic" yields far more Google results -- of course it does. The Wikipedia article uses that title, so it would make sense that that would therefore become standardized. "Google results" aside -- go to the library and look up books on the Second French Republic/French Second Republic and you'll see that the two translations are equally distributed. Jackwc123 (talk) 15:30, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Jackwc123:, thanks for your comments. Mostly, they won't be read or acted upon, because you're responding to a ten-year old thread. As to the specifics, though I understand your argumentation based on your knowledge of English and parsing what appears to be the logic of the expression, this isn't actually how we decide on article titles at Wikipedia; rather, we attempt to follow the policy laid out at WP:Article title, which has various criteria, including that of WP:COMMONNAME, which are worth reading up on. If you think this name change is worth bringing up again, please raise a new proposal at the bottom of the page, following the how-to guide at Wikipedia:Moving a page and the details at WP:Requested moves for how to proceed. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 00:00, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
Despite the bot date, a request for expert has been on this article since early 2007. I have two advanced degrees in French political history (mostly Third Republic, but I do know a bit), so while I don't want to blow my own horn, I may qualify as an expert.
Is there some concern I can work on? If so please let me know. The article is not wonderful, but seems alright. Unless someone has a specific concern, I will remove that tag. Thanks. T L Miles (talk) 20:18, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:French First Republic which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 03:45, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Under the 1946 Constitution, French Algeria, Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guiana, and Réunion were defined as overseas departments, and French India, New Caledonia, French Polynesia and Saint Pierre and Miquelon were defined as overseas territories. Both overseas departments and overseas territories were part of the French Republic.
As far as I know Wallis and Futuna, Mayotte, Côte d'Ivoire, French Dahomey, French Sudan, French Guinea, French Mauritania, French Niger, French Senegal, French Upper Volta and French Togoland, French Cambodia (until 1955), South Vietnam (until 1955), French Morocco (until 1956), French Tunisia (until 1956), Kingdom of Laos (until 1957) were all territories under French rule within the French Union, ie not part of the French Republic.
The map currently only shows Algeria as part of the republic, not French Guiana or Réunion. Should this be corrected? I can correct it if I'm not mistaken.
Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:French Third Republic which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:29, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Algeria should be in dark green
There were a couple of attempts to write a Constitution, and various referendums open to public vote to approve them. This is covered adequately in the French article, but is almost completely absent here. This article should explain, or at least summarize, how the French Constitution of 27 October 1946 (currently a stub) came about; I'll add a link to it. Mathglot (talk) 00:01, 6 March 2021 (UTC)